I posted the following comment over at Jesus Christology today in response to yet another unbiblical, unthinking, knee jerk response by Frank Turk (a.k.a. Centuri0n) of Team Pyro.
With friends like Frank Turk the true church doesn’t need enemies:
Coram Deo Says:
January 27, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Once again Frank Turk (a.k.a. Centuri0n) has completely missed the boat.
Frank Turk would have us believe that “church discipline” as administered in the case of Karolyn Caskey (and apparently in every case) is legitimate. This is his first and gravest error and is the one from which much of the remainder of his errors on the role and responsibility of the local church – which are legion – flows.
By making his original aforementioned erroneous assumption he then, by extension, moves on toward the logical conclusion of his deluded view which is that anyone and everyone in general should “leave and be at peace” whenever “church discipline” has been administered, regardless of its legitimacy.
Interestingly this is also the modus operandi of the Purpose Driven Deception of “Pastor” Rick Warren and his hangers on, and is also a favorite of cultists everywhere. They invoke words like “division”, and “unity” and “authority” in order to cast out the saints of God who earnestly contend for the faith once delivered so that they as self proclaimed “God’s anointed leadership” can go about rending Christ’s little flock with impunity.
It’s simply amazing to me that someone like Frank Turk who is on record stating that individual Christians don’t have the moral authority to leave their local church of their own volition turns around and passionately advocates for the absolute supremacy and final decision making authority of any and every act of “church discipline” administered, irrespective of the circumstances involved.
Never mind that hirelings like Burrick usurp the Biblical model of church leadership in order to attain unbiblical CEO like powers, it’s all good! Thus saith Frank Turk.
In Frank Turk’s twisted, upside down world the Reformation could never have occurred. In fact the RCC, the LDS, and the JW’s must surely be model organizations for Mr. Turk and his blind, legalistic ilk!
Frank Turk would have men obey the doctrines of men rather than having men obey the oracles of God.
If the Caskey case is representative of “church discipline making a comeback” then those who are called by name of Lord ought to recognize the signs of the times and realize that the Lord is calling His faithful remnant out of the last days harlot church that whores itself with the world.
I also think it’s worth noting in this instance that “Pastor” Burrick – and I use that term advisedly – is a graduate of Hyles Anderson which has quite the reputation for cranking out numerous wolves in sheep’s clothing.
I wonder why men like Frank Turk can’t discern the difference between spiritual abuse and church discipline, and if they can why they can’t (or won’t) articulate disparate courses of action for each case?
I wonder why Frank Turk believes true regenerate Christian men and women don’t have the moral ability to leave their local church of their own volition, yet will simultaneously teach that the moment a hireling, a usurper, an infiltrator – a wolf in sheep’s clothing of the type which the Holy Scriptures repeatedly warns us against – rises to power and begins to rend Christ’s little flock by throwing out the truly regenerate membership that those same regenerate members should bow down to the “authority” – so called – of that wicked leadership and walk away instead of standing boldly and earnestly contending for the faith?
It would seem that men like Frank Turk either don’t know, or else are unable to make any distinction as to when to walk away, when to run, or when to stand and fight. For men like Frank Turk it would seem that you just walk away when you’re told to walk and that’s that – case closed. Holding to and espousing this sort of unintelligible, absurd dichotomy highlights the truth that a double minded man truly is unstable in all his ways.
I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us. So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church. (3 John 1: 9-10)
Perhaps most concerning is where Mr. Turk correctly states, “it’s not ‘her’ church anymore than it is that pastor’s church. It is God’s church if it is right, and o the road to being Satan’s if it is wrong”: It’s simply breathtaking that one can recognize this truth and still take the position that the regenerate church membership ought to just “let things go to hell” by sitting quietly and doing exactly as they’re told; or else when they do take a stand for the Word of God that they must to fawningly submit to being thrown out by ungodly, wicked usurpers who have cunningly slithered into positions of church leadership. What love is this?
This sort of twisted thinking is representative of the predictably bitter fruit that’s been born of the effeminization and doctrinal dumbing-down of the professing church. The men-in-skirts spiritual sissies who promote this worldview from the pulpit, the seminary, and yes, even from their blogs, will be accountable before the Infinite Creator and Judge of the Universe for their false teachings and will incur greater damnation because of it.
FACT: Mrs. Caskey was not excommunicated according to her church’s due process to seek repentance and reinstatement.
FACT: Mrs. Caskey never one maliciously interfered with the church or any church service nor did she disrupt any assembly at any time.
FACT: Mrs. Caskey has behaved graciously and remained steadfast to the Lord despite the persecution she has received from the wicked servants of Baal who have taken control of her local church.
FACT: According to eyewitnesses in attendance ”Pastor” Burrick spent 30+ minutes going on a prolonged tantrum about “the Caskey case” which included jumping on furniture, stalking up and down the church aisles, and getting directly and literally in people’s faces.
Has even one pastor censured the hireling Burrick from the pulpit? Has even one committee of concerned Christian elders from a Bible-believing church come to rebuke him? Why is most everyone piling on and pointing accusing fingers at Karolyn Caskey?
Why do people like Frank Turk create or enter into forums like this and flatly state that Karolyn Caskey – and by extension everyone else – simply leave and surrender their local church to hirelings like Burrick as if this were a good thing or the appropriate course to follow? By doing this they willfully ignore the fact that if everyone followed their sage advice then any and every cultist, heretic, and blasphemer who slithers or swoops into a pulpit with a few backers can turn the local church into a brood of vipers effectively turning it into a cult of personality. Is this okay with everyone? Is it good for the saints of God to leave these churches so they can continue to abuse and corrupt their flocks? Again I ask, what love is this?
Confronting this type of error in the church is commanded by scripture and is part and parcel of true Christian love. Why can’t the very people who profess Christ see this truth? I feel sorry for those who are so ignorant of scripture, or so enamored and blinded by the doctrines of men that they actua
lly think it’s good and right to let open evil such as that displayed in the Caskey incident to go unconfronted and unrebuked.
Those who believe this way are spiritual cowards.
Those who believe this way are spots on the true Body of Christ, and are an offense to God Almighty.
Those who believe this way draw close to God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him.
Ingrid Schlueter of Slice of Laodicea has posted a very timely and important piece on the relationship between the true believer and the false church:
A Slice reader poses this question to fellow Bible-believing Christians:
“When do we leave a church? That’s the overwhelming question that I’m seeking an answer to. I do not believe in church hopping or getting disgruntled over a minute issue (wallpaper in the nursery)and uprooting your family and leaving a church. But, in dealing with error or what we believe to be apostasy, when and where IN SCRIPTURE does God say “Leave that church!”?
There are some who seemingly think there is no such thing as a reason to leave the local church and who will – not unlike the papist lapdogs in Rome – actually go so far as to question whether or not the believer in Christ even has the moral liberty to abandon the local church! One has to wonder if such a question is intended to invite genuine prayerful reflection, or if it’s merely a silly prank.
But thanks be unto the Lord that there are still clearheaded and serious minded believers who understand the gravity of this matter. Jim Bublitz of Old Truth posted the following response to the Slice reader’s inquiry:
AW Pink on when you are OBLIGATED to leave a church:
If any [pastor] usurps that office [established by Christ Himself], and under cloak thereof do teach or enjoin things contrary to what Christ has instituted, then no obedience unto them is required by this command. But it is just at this point that most difficulty is experienced today. For many years past large numbers of professing Christians have been demanding that the religious leaders should speak unto them “smooth things”, yea, prophesy unto them “deceits”, declining to listen unto what condemned their carnal and worldly lives and refusing to heed the holy requirements of God. In consequence, He has suffered their descendants to reap the evil sowings of their fathers, by largely withholding “pastors after His own heart”, and allowing thousands of unregenerate men to occupy the modern pulpit. Instead of “obeying” and “submitting” to them, God requires His people to turn away from and have nothing to do with them. –AW Pink, Exposition of Hebrews
From Robert Reymond’s – New Systematic Theology Of The Christian Faith:
Separation from one’s local church or denomination is appropriate if it will not discipline heretics (2 Cor. 6:14-18). If a church rejects discipline for theological errors that subvert the foundation of the gospel and becomes theologically pluralistic in practice (even though it may retain an orthodox confession by which it promises to be guided), that church has become “heretical” in that it no longer stands under the authority of God, and the orthodox are compelled to separate from it to bear witness to the marks of the church.
There’s no disputing the sad fact that apostatizing professing church is leading countless thousands – millions? – of souls down the broad path that leads to destruction with their Purpose Driven Deceptions, Emergent new age mysticism, Word Faith heresies, and feel good easy-believism. This is no light matter and the alarm must continually be raised in order that by God’s grace some might escape the flames which are even now licking at the feet of these blind leaders of blind. May the Lord of Hosts continue to call his own to “come out of her” (Rev. 18:4), the harlot church – the scarlet woman of Revelation.
Continue reading “Knowing When to Walk Away, When to Run” here