A Response to: "Concerning Ray Comfort and Word Faith Wolves"

An edifying email exchange at Apprising Ministries, which concerns Ray Comfort and a conference featuring prominent preachers of the heresies of the Word Faith movement.

A response to Ken’s follow up missive can be read by clicking “more”.

HAT TIP: Christian Research Network

Ken,
 
Thank you for your thorough and clear reply.  You can rest assured that I don’t take any personal offense to the opinions you or Ingrid have presented at your websites or in our personal e-mail exchanges, yet even with the clarifications I’ve received thus far from both yourself and Ingrid I still find your collective position to be in error and it looks like we’re simply going to have to agree to disagree. 
 
To be honest I was somewhat hesitant to even share my original private correspondence to Ingrid with you, but it said everything I had to say and I believe that she would not mind openly sharing with you anything she’s said to me in private.  I presume the same is true of our correspondence.
 
To clarify your statement: “Further, I want you to help me understand why a Christian would EVER say that I teach we are to reject ANY opportunity to proclaim the Lord’s glorious gospel of grace to unregenerate sinners. The fact is I didn’t say, and never would say, anything of the sort.”
 
My point wasn’t that you or Ingrid made this defacto statement, yet in the apparent zeal to divorce Ray Comfort from the speaking engagement in question this would be the defacto actual result – a tacit denial of the faithful presentation of the eternal gospel of grace!  Under any circumstances this is always too high a price to pay, Ken.  In my view of scripture accepting an invitation to faithfully preach the uncompromised gospel of grace is not to be denied, period.  In fact I cannot think of ANY case in scripture where a minister of the gospel refused to preach the gospel, not once!  Can you?
 
Ken, I’m not here to impugn Ingrid’s nor your godly motivations, but I passionately and unabashedly disagree with the two of you on what I perceive to be the real substance of this issue which has nothing to do with being unequally yoked, but has everything to do with the faithful proclamation of the pure gospel.  As a pastor you already know that the faithful proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is God’s chosen method by which He miraculously and supernaturally converts deadened hell bound sinners into lively stones fitly joined together.  In my view anytime we’re found to be standing over and against a faithful presentation of the gospel, then we find ourselves on the wrong side of the issue – every time.
 
You say Ray is unequally yoked with the WoF’ers, and it’s okay for you to say and truly believe that; but that’s not what I see or hear in the presentations he’s given at prior conferences that I’ve listened to nor from his own written statement.  Which of those other presenters is going to tell the truth if Ray doesn’t go and tell the truth?  None of them!  If Ray does indeed go to the conference and pull a “Ravi” then I sincerely believe we will stand side by side to call upon him to repent, but to presume that he must avoid a faithful presentation of the eternal gospel because of the venue is, in my mind, just wrongheaded and there’s simply no scriptural support for taking such a postion.  Was Paul unequally yoked in his Mars Hill Discourse with the Athenians or when he went from synagogue to synagogue preaching? 
 
The gospel is the solution to culture.
 
The gospel is the answer to error.
 
The gospel is the means whereby the One True and Living God reconciles sinners unto Himself.
 
Until men have been converted by the supernatural power imbued by the faithful preaching of the gospel all the discernment in the world doesn’t matter in the least.
 
As you’ve correctly pointed out Ray Comfort is an evangelist, not an apologist, and from The One True and Living God’s boundless oceans of mercy, grace, pity and love He and He alone will see to it that His elect are gathered into the true Church of Jesus Christ, the Body and Bride of Christ whom He has chosen in Himself from the foundations of the world.  He and He alone will draw them to Himself and sanctify them from glory to glory, finally presenting them spotless and glistering to the eternal praise of His glory alone forever and evermore.  This is achieved by the foolishness of the preaching of the cross, which is the eternal gospel of grace. 
 
The LORD will lead His own stray sheep home and to be quite frank I would suspect that many, if not most, Christian’s testimony would be similar to mine when I say that the man from whom I providentially heard the gospel that the Lord used to save my soul is not the One who has ever since led me in the paths of righteousness and grace.  This is the LORD’s doing and it is marvelous in our eyes!     
 
As I’ve already said to Ingrid I’m certainly not as close to the “behind the scenes” issues surrounding this matter as you and she obviously are, but at the bottom of the equation lies the faithful proclamation of the eternal gospel of grace which is the power of God to save unregenerate sinners and, as you know, it must be proclaimed by all means and to all men by commandment of our Lord and King.  As you know, this is deadly serious business.
 
I’ll close by sharing Ingrid’s response to my e-mail and my follow up, because I believe based on your article and your response to me that you and she basically share the same viewpoint on this matter, and I don’t think it would be productive for either of us if I were to respond point by point to your e-mail.  I do hope and pray this frank, open, and honest dialogue doesn’t cause any feelings of animosity or contention to arise between us as I value you as a brother and fellow bondservant of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Risen Savior and King of Glory.  Furthermore I can truly tell you that the Lord knows that I have nothing but respect and honor and godly love in my heart for you and Ingrid.

Ingrid,

Thanks for your frank and honest reply, and we do indeed remain in disagreement; a situation which I find to be quite unusual if not downright uncomfortable.  You’re correct when you explain that I’m unaware of the “behind the scenes” activities surrounding Ray Comfort and his ministry which is quite natural as all I have to go on is the man’s public ministry and the “conversation of his life” as I can see it from a distance.  Clearly you’re closer to these issues than I, and with this in mind I’ll certainly take you at your word on these matters.
 
I’m also fully aware of the heretical nature WoF movement and its false teachers because the Lord of Glory in His providence actually delivered me from a Charismatic Pentecostal WoF false religious “vain-traditions-of-men” upbringing.  In fact the Lord in His wisdom has seen fit to use my past experiences wallowing in the WoF doctrines of equine ejectus to equip me as a meager apologist against their rank and damnable heresies.
 
Yet at base the issue herein as I see it isn’t about the personalities involved, but rather the real issue is whether or not the glorious gospel of grace is being faithfully proclaimed.  This is the difference between life and death; not the personal foibles of imperfect, sinful, fallen men and women.  The WoF heretics such as Murdock, Copeland, Duplantis, et al are clearly wolves and unregenerate sinners and therefore we ought not to be surprised when they act like the wolves and sinners that they are.
 
Yet from all appearances Ray Comfort is a sinner saved by grace who – at least for now – faithfully proclaims the pure, Biblical, true, uncompromised gospel of grace impartially and to all comers.  To this I say bravo and “praise the Lord!” and I pray that he would be mightily used of the Lord to reach His elect, wherever they may be found from every kingdom, tribe, tongue, and nation to the praise of His glory alone forever and evermore!
 
The quickening light of the pure gospel of Jesus Christ will expose the corrupt falsehoods and wicked designs of sinful men and the heresies of the false teachers they heap unto themselves far more powerfully than any cleverly devised oratory originating from the heart of any sinful man -even if he were the greatest saint who ever walked the face of the earth.  The Lord of Glory is completely sovereign and is fully able to deliver His true children from the hands of the oppressor, just as he has led you and I and many, many others from the shackles by which we were bound.
 
Just as with the Muslim, the Buddhist, the atheist, the Mormon, the JW, the Roman Catholic, the emergent/emerging cultist – or any other false religionist – the One True and Living God of the Holy Bible is absolutely sovereign and is more than able to deliver the WoF adherent from his bondage and oppression and bring him into a right relationship with Himself by His gospel power alone. 
 
Again I think this is your major error and where your logic seems to be runnning aground on this matter – a small view of God’s true gospel power and a big view of Satan’s lying deceptive power.  This is perhaps the most critical point I made in my previous message, which I’ll note in passing that you didn’t respond to.  I’m not arguing that the deception of our day isn’t great – it certainly is – rather I’m arguing that the uncompromised truth of the eternal gospel of grace, faithfully presented, is greater; and it certainly is.
 
So to you, and to Ray Comfort, and to all I would say, “May the gospel of grace be faithfully proclaimed and thundered forth from the mountaintops to the eternal praise of King Jesus forever and ever, and may we who are called by His Holy Name never think it good to withhold Christ’s life giving message from anyone for any reason whatsoever”.
 
Thanks again for your reply.  I hope you have a happy 4th of July!

17 thoughts on “A Response to: "Concerning Ray Comfort and Word Faith Wolves"

  1. I think 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 is applicable.

    “I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.”

    This means that if someone is a brother and living in sin, I should not associate with them, or even eat with them. However, if someone is of the world, I’m free to be with them, especially for the purpose of giving them the gospel.

    The argument comes from whether these people are brothers who need to be confronted, or not brothers who need the gospel. I can see both sides, but Comfort’s decision is between him and God, and I’m not going to second guess him.

    Bill

  2. In response to Corem Deo’s response to your article, (He also placed a link under my post:
    The Way Jesus Didn’t Do It. Ray Comfort to Speak Alongside Word Faith Heretics Again. )

    Corem Deo, although your article is a response to Ken’s as it doesn’t sound like you’ve read mine, I’ll address some points from your article, and by the way
    here’s the link for it

    First of all I totally disagree that this an “attack on the simplicity of the Eternal Gospel of Grace”, nor is it a personal attack on Ray Comfort. I only have a deep love for the man.

    Corem wrote: “Ray Comfort is an evangelist who, as far as I can tell, faithfully presents the uncompromised and eternal gospel”
    —–As I have written in my article above, if a JW or a Mormon knocked on my door and I gave them WOTM, but refused to warn them that they have a different Jesus, then I have not witnessed to them PERIOD. The problem we have is that so far on appearances on TBN, and other speaking events with WF, Ray Comfort & others from WOTM have compromised by refusing to warn people about the false teachers.
    As noted in my post, that is not “the way Jesus did it” as He clearly warned people about the wolves, Mat 21:13; Mat 23:13; Mat 16:16, (and there are many more Scriptures).

    Corem wrote: “Why has the conception of the absolutely sovereign One True and Living God of the Holy Bible become so small as to think that the power of His eternal gospel of grace needs a little help from sinful men to REALLY get the point across because, well, you know, people are REALLY deceived by Satan?”
    —–Let me ask you: If I preached the Gospel in Greek to a room of people who didn’t understand Greek, and I told you afterwards I gave them a “faithful proclamation of His eternal gospel of grace” then I‘m sure you would object by saying, “no you didn’t because no-one in this room speaks Greek,”
    And I’m sure you would think I was being ridiculous if I then replied is “the Lord God Omnipotent is so powerless”

    Just like if you faithfully witness to a Mormon or a JW, you have to address their false teachings, it is no different with Word Faith, otherwise they’ll just interpret everything you say through the lens of the meaning of words and phrases that they have been learning for the last few years.

    Now the notion that 2 John 10-11, and other Scriptures alike (you missed 1 Cor 5:11) doesn’t apply to Word Faith because they are “unsaved false believers” is ridiculous. That is exactly who it is applying to, people who claim they are Christians, but have damnable teachings and lifestyles.

    Corem wrote: “Or how about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; when he accepted invitations and ate with harlots, sinners, and tax collectors (without preconditions);”
    ——-You seem to miss that these “harlots, sinners, and tax collectors” were not claiming to be Christians.

    Corem wrote: “It isn’t up to Ray Comfort to correct the erroneous beliefs to which the WoF adherents hold – this ought to be crystal clear because according to the scriptures unregenerate sinners have no spiritual discernment!”
    ———Away with you hyper-Calvinism. Jesus and the Apostles spent plenty of time correcting erroneous beliefs of “unregenerate sinners [who] have no spiritual discernment”

    Corem wrote: “because some people seem to think that the faithful preaching and presentation of the WHOLE GOSPEL OF GRACE is in some way insufficient.”
    ———The Whole Gospel is much more than, are you a sinner? Have you lied? Stolen?, do you want to go to Hell? Jesus died for you, repent and trust?”
    What was the Gospel according to Matthew, according to Mark, Luke and John.
    What needs to be communicated is who God is, who they are, what God has done, and what they need to do. Unfortunately unless the WF false teachings are addressed then “who God is” is not addressed and so everything will be interpreted through the false Jesus and teachings they have been taught.

  3. Hi Kevin,

    You seem very sincere and I thank you for taking the time to visit DefCon and for sharing your thoughts. Now I’d like to take a few moments to respond to you point by point.

    Kevin said:“Corem Deo, although your article is a response to Ken’s as it doesn’t sound like you’ve read mine, I’ll address some points from your article, and by the way.”

    Actually Kevin, I did read your post in its entirety and I think you’re a good writer. In fact I’ve been reading quite a bit within the Christian blogosphere recently regarding the apparently widespread belief in the insufficiency of the gospel of grace from various surprising sources. It was from this outpouring of contempt for the all-sufficiency of the gospel that led me to compile my various thoughts into an article entitled “The Insufficiency of the Gospel“.

    Kevin said:“First of all I totally disagree that this an “attack on the simplicity of the Eternal Gospel of Grace”, nor is it a personal attack on Ray Comfort. I only have a deep love for the man.”

    Of course you do. So far all the authors I’ve read who have busily pilloried Ray Comfort in their various and sundry blog posts profess to love him. I shudder to think of the treatment he endures at the hands of his enemies if his supposedly enamored brothers and sisters in Lord (who according to scripture ought to be encouraging their fellow bondservants) are so quick to throw him under the proverbial bus!

    Kevin said:“As I have written in my article above, if a JW or a Mormon knocked on my door and I gave them WOTM, but refused to warn them that they have a different Jesus, then I have not witnessed to them PERIOD.”

    I read this too and its certainly a fascinating statement about your view of the eternal gospel of grace. Do you really think WOTM is the same thing as the gospel?

    Kevin said:“Let me ask you: If I preached the Gospel in Greek to a room of people who didn’t understand Greek, and I told you afterwards I gave them a “faithful proclamation of His eternal gospel of grace” then I‘m sure you would object by saying, “no you didn’t because no-one in this room speaks Greek,”
    And I’m sure you would think I was being ridiculous if I then replied is “the Lord God Omnipotent is so powerless””

    Not to put too fine a point on it Kevin, but your example is ridiculous in and of itself. Please understand that I don’t mean to be too harsh, but if – using your “Greek” example – the One True and Living God wanted to reach one of His elect by the supernaturally enabling His elect hearers to understand your words, or if He were to suddenly and miraculously endue you with gift of speaking in tongues then He would do so. In point of fact He has already demonstrated He can and will do this. Is anything too hard for the Lord, Kevin? Do you believe this is true?

    Yet methinks thou protesteth too much because, as you know, in the case of Ray Comfort and the WoF cultists Ray will presumably speak in English to an English speaking audience so the verbal communication won’t be the barrier; rather the spiritual darkness of the unregenerate mind and heart is the true barrier, and God’s chosen method for penetrating that barrier and bringing about new life in Jesus Christ is the faithful proclamation of the eternal gospel of grace alone.

    Kevin said:“Just like if you faithfully witness to a Mormon or a JW, you have to address their false teachings, it is no different with Word Faith, otherwise they’ll just interpret everything you say through the lens of the meaning of words and phrases that they have been learning for the last few years.”

    I don’t think anyone would disagree that addressing false teachings is helpful and Biblically commendable, in fact that’s one of the primary reasons that this blog exists, but for you or anyone else to make the statement that the gospel itself is insufficient apart from some additional apologetic discourse is both unbiblical and false. By such a profession as contained in your previous comment you evidently believe that Satan’s lying power is greater than the gospel power of God Almighty; which is an absolute misconception of the infinite Creator and Judge of the universe who sovereignly does as He pleases – and according to scripture it pleases Him to save His elect by the foolishness of the preaching of the cross. God is telling the truth, Kevin. Have faith in Him.

    Kevin said:“Now the notion that 2 John 10-11, and other Scriptures alike (you missed 1 Cor 5:11) doesn’t apply to Word Faith because they are “unsaved false believers” is ridiculous. That is exactly who it is applying to, people who claim they are Christians, but have damnable teachings and lifestyles.”

    Now I can’t stop you from saying or believing whatever you’d like Kevin, but you’re just flat wrong here and no amount of stamping your feet and waving your hands and saying “It ain’t so!” will change this fact. May I recommend a Bible commentary or some good solid exegetical resources for your review? You seem well intentioned, but you’re badly uninformed and it shows – glaringly.

    Kevin said:“Corem wrote: “Or how about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; when he accepted invitations and ate with harlots, sinners, and tax collectors (without preconditions);”
    ——-You seem to miss that these “harlots, sinners, and tax collectors” were not claiming to be Christians.”

    No, I didn’t miss that at all – because it doesn’t matter what they “claimed” to be – it mattered that they were, and what they were was outside the true church and in desperate need of the gospel just like everyone who is outside the true church. You see, there are only two kinds of people in the world Kevin, true born-again regenerate children of God and everyone else. Everyone else needs the gospel.

    Kevin said: “Corem wrote: “It isn’t up to Ray Comfort to correct the erroneous beliefs to which the WoF adherents hold – this ought to be crystal clear because according to the scriptures unregenerate sinners have no spiritual discernment!”
    ———Away with you hyper-Calvinism. Jesus and the Apostles spent plenty of time correcting erroneous beliefs of “unregenerate sinners [who] have no spiritual discernment”

    Uh…Kevin…hyper-Calvism doesn’t say that the lost have no spiritual discernment, the Bible says that. Spiritual discernment is a gift from God for His children. Jesus and the apostles faithfully preached the good news to their hearers and steadfastly rebuked the self-righteous Pharisees who inwardly trusted in themselves, their outward religious practices, and their ethnicity. As previously noted the gospel is God’s chosen method of reaching the lost and penetrating their hearts of darkness. Again, I do believe the scriptures teach that there’s great value in exposing falsehood in the light of inspired scripture since true believers are commanded to do so – and we ought to pray that such endeavors would bear fruit as God is pleased to supernaturally regenerate wretched, sinful, depraved, wicked, vile, contemptable lumps of sin such as myself into saints – yet there is simply no scriptural precedent for the sort of high-handed DEMANDS that are being placed on Ray Comfort by a select few who are taking a secondary offense to the fact that he’s willing to simply go and preach the gospel anywhere to anyone as commanded by King Jesus in His Great Commission. The hubris on display in this whole sorry episode is both breathtaking and saddening.

    Kevin said:“Corem wrote: “because some people seem to think that the faithful preaching and presentation of the WHOLE GOSPEL OF GRACE is in some way insufficient.”
    ———The Whole Gospel is much more than, are you a sinner? Have you lied? Stolen?, do you want to go to Hell? Jesus died for you, repent and trust?”
    What was the Gospel according to Matthew, according to Mark, Luke and John.
    What needs to be communicated is who God is, who they are, what God has done, and what they need to do. Unfortunately unless the WF false teachings are addressed then “who God is” is not addressed and so everything will be interpreted through the false Jesus and teachings they have been taught.”

    Again you apparently fall into the trap of thinking that the equation WOTM Methodology = The Eternal Gospel of Grace is true (it isn’t by the way), while also embracing the fallacy that God can’t do what He says He can do with His gospel because that sneaky ol’ devil has tricked all those poor deceived people into believing incorrectly causing them to uniformly “re-interpret” the faithful presentation of the true gospel of grace. Such thinking reflects the completely erroneous belief that the wiles of the enemy are somehow more powerful than God Himself and His gospel and therefore God Almighty needs sinful men to jazz up His gospel in some way so that it can be interpreted correctly by those who are deceived. WRONG!

    Where is that line of reasoning in the Bible, Kevin? I believe God will simply regenerate His elect, and will cause them to come to Him by grace through faith in the hearing of His Eternal Gospel as it is faithfully proclaimed in its simplicity.

    I believe this because this is what the Bible teaches consistently and because salvation is all of grace, and is completely monergistic, and that God always does what He says He will do and that He is fully able to perform all His pleasure and purpose every time and in all cases.

    Thanks again for dropping by and I hope you’ll return soon.

    In Christ,
    CD

  4. Does the end justify the means ?

    There appears to be two “camps” here..

    1) WOTM should not be questioned in anything they do as long as they are preaching the gospel and taking people through the good person test.

    2) Lets think about this, is it right to work alongside heretics and false prophets/teachers for the sake of reaching many with the good person test they would not normally hear, without exposing the false teaching?

    I belong to the line of thinking No 2 .Not because i dislike Ray & Kirk or feel like attacking them but because i want to see my brothers do whats right.(Maybe i should say this twice as it seems no matter how many times anyone that belongs in camp No 2 says it,it doesnt seem to sink in and we get accused of attacking WOTM)….”Not because i dislike Ray & Kirk or feel like attacking them but because i want to see my brothers do whats right”

    I hope we all know that God is sovereign here and will save who He wants to save regardless of false teachers/doctrine.We see evidence of the many true converts that have been saved at Billy Graham crusades and even Alpha courses etc..

    So does God need WOTM to align themselves with these heretics in order to get the gospel out ?

    The answer has to be No!

    God will save His people :

    Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

    Please ask yourself, would it be right to go join Todd Bentley on stage of his crusades to reach the many people that watch his performance ? in order to take them through the good person test also ?

    Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them

    Again the answer has to be No!

    I find it very worrying that people will not dare question WOTM.
    As true christians we should keep each other accountable and we should be in a place where we do not resent criticism from our brothers and sisters,but welcome it.

    Imagine the impact it would have if Ray and Kirk did what they should and exposed the error of the WOF movement live on TV …ok they would not get invited back but they would have done whats right,and reached many with the truth.

    So does the end justify the means ?

  5. Corem,

    First of all you accuse me and others of lying in denying we have love for Ray Comfort, now as you by your own admission are such a “solid exegetical” Bible expositor, then I’ll presume you are aware of: Rev 21:8 “… all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
    and,
    1 John 3:14 “We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.”
    So are you claiming that anyone who is prepared to say that Ray is wrong in this case is therefore not saved?

    I repeat again I only have love for Ray and others at WOTM. I have been truly blessed by their ministry over the years. As I have clearly said in my article I do not consider Ray or anyone at WOTM false teachers, just that they are wrong on this issue.

    Corem wrote: “Do you really think WOTM is the same thing as the gospel? and also: “Again you apparently fall into the trap of thinking that the equation WOTM Methodology = The Eternal Gospel of Grace”

    —-Corem, as I addressed in my post “The Whole Gospel is much more than…” “What was the Gospel according to Matthew, according to Mark, Luke and John.
    What needs to be communicated is who God is, who they are, what God has done, and what they need to do.”

    If you can take that to mean I think the Gospel is WOTM then is it any wonder that I didn’t get the impression that you’d read my original article.

    If you really think it would be fine to preach the Gospel in Greek to non-Greek speakers then would you also say the Roman Catholic’s were right for insisting the Bible was to be in Latin? Your response is hyper-Calvinism.

    But why not take your line of thinking to its logical conclusion? If it doesn’t matter what language we preach the Gospel or how thinly we preach it, then why does Ray Comfort have to go to WF at all? surely they’ll hear a “Would you like to ask Jesus into your heart and be forgiven” from them. Or to use your own words do “you evidently believe that Satan’s lying power is greater than the gospel power of God Almighty”

    In reply to my comment: “:“Now the notion that 2 John 10-11, and other Scriptures alike (you missed 1 Cor 5:11) doesn’t apply to Word Faith because they are “unsaved false believers” is ridiculous. That is exactly who it is applying to, people who claim they are Christians, but have damnable teachings and lifestyles.”
    Corem you wrote “you’re just flat wrong here and no amount of stamping your feet and waving your hands and saying “It ain’t so!” will change this fact. May I recommend a Bible commentary or some good solid exegetical resources for your review? You seem well intentioned, but you’re badly uninformed and it shows – glaringly.”
    —-
    ——-Which Bible commentaries are you suggesting? Rob Bell, Rick Warren or Eugine Peterson perhaps? Because Albert Barnes, Matthew Henry, John Gill, John MacArthur, John Calvin all agree with me.

    Corem Deo “You see, there are only two kinds of people in the world Kevin, true born-again regenerate children of God and everyone else. Everyone else needs the gospel.
    —-
    ————-Regenerate people also need the Gospel.

    Corem Deo wrote: “Where is that line of reasoning in the Bible, Kevin? I believe God will simply regenerate His elect, and will cause them to come to Him by grace through faith in the hearing of His Eternal Gospel as it is faithfully proclaimed in its simplicity.”
    —-
    ——-Then why does He need Ray Comfort to go there? Essentially your “gospel” that does not address who Jesus is, sounds identical to the gospel WF teaches, with their different Jesus. In fact many use the same reasoning as yourself to attack WOTM, accusing Ray of adding to the Gospel because he insists using the law is “the only way”

  6. Kevin,

    Whenever I’ve heard Ray Comfort witness to Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons, I think he intentionally avoids discussing the Trinity.

    In Comfort’s book, “Thanks a Million!” after a dialogue where he witnessed to Jehovah’s Witnesses who knocked on his door, he says, on page 80,

    There were no arguments about the deity of Christ because I made sure the conversation didn’t go in that direction. It’s important to remember that Jehovah’s Witnesses see Christians as misguided ‘Trinitarians’…
    Do you remember who revealed the truth about the deity of Jesus to Peter? When he said that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, buy My Father who is in Heaven.” So I believe that the best way for anyone to find out who Jesus is, is for God to reveal it to them.

    I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you disagree with Comfort’s reasoning, since you said that if you talk to a JW or Mormon, but don’t discuss Jesus’ deity, you don’t think you’ve witnessed to them at all.

    I think it’s just fine if you want to disagree with him, but I think he’s thought this through for many years, and he has valid biblical reasons for what he does. If there’s anything that can be said for the guy it’s that he’s consistent.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  7. Coram Deo:

    character assassination is the tool of the defeated. I cannot fathom why do you descend to such depths to attack Kevin when he was addressing issues, not people, least of all you.

  8. Kevin,

    Thanks for stopping by again. You seem to be a terribly confused and bitter young man so I do encourage you to please keep returning here as much as possible in order that you may be told the truth in love.

    If your idea of Christian love is to publicly rebuke a brother in the Lord for a gospel message that hasn’t even been delivered yet because you’ve presupposed some outcome based on nothing but your own personal feelings that the yet future message won’t pass muster in accordance with what YOU think is breathtakingly arrogant.

    Now you can take offense all you want and continue in your bad habit of churning out spiteful rants and venting your angst just as long as you see fit, but in the end you are still engaging in a shameful and unbiblical public rebuke of a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus Christ for no other reason than your own personal feelings about what you think will or won’t be said in the future.

    The generally poor comportment you’ve demonstrated as a guest here at DefCon is both pathetic and childish, but your behavior towards Ray Comfort is simply reprehensible and your position against the all-sufficiency of the eternal gospel of grace is Biblically indefensible, shameful and inexcusable.

    Yet this being said you are allowed to spew forth your venom against those who trust in the absolute sovereignty of the One True and Living God alone and who cling with a simple, childlike faith to the eternal gospel of grace to your heart’s content.

    In Christ,
    CD

  9. CD

    I know Kevin personally and your attack on his personality is shamefull.

    Why dont you answer the question in my previous post? …If it is ok for WOTM to be on stage with heretics on TBN to reach people …Should they go on stage with Todd Bentley for the same reasons?…after all there are probably far more people watching Bentley than TBN at this moment in time.

    I look forward to your response.

    dale

  10. Daniel / Dale,

    I must say that it’s fascinating to see the two of you taking secondary offense and rushing to the defense of Kevin when he’s called on the carpet on the ISSUES of engaging in shameful and unbiblical public rebuke of a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus Christ (Ray Comfort) for no other reason than his own personal feelings about what he thinks will or won’t be said in the future. and for his position against the all-sufficiency of the eternal gospel of grace.

    Clearly Kevin and the others on the “PUBLICLY SHAME RAY COMFORT INTO SUBMISSION TO OUR PERSONAL DEMANDS” bandwagon that he’s joined up with won’t be satisfied with the faithful presentation of the gospel of grace anywhere and to anyone; rather in the case of Ray Comfort they’ve apparently appointed themselves as the arbiters of who and under what circumstances he may preach the eternal gospel of grace. Amazing!

    And the irony herein doesn’t escape my notice. Just look at how the two of you leapt into action at the merest perceived slight toward Kevin while you’re simultaneously busily (and very publicly) throwing Ray Comfort under the proverbial bus! Some might say that such a double standard smacks of rank hypocrisy.

    I wonder Dale, if you knew Ray Comfort “personally” as you claim to know Kevin if you might be gracious enough to offer Ray an ounce of mercy and liberty in the Lord based on your “personal” knowledge of him seeing as his very public ministry and the conversation of his life evidently don’t convince you enough to do so.

    And by the way Dale, I’m typically loathed to answer a question with a question; but as soon as you can tell me where the eternal gospel of grace shouldn’t be faithfully proclaimed then I’ll answer your inquiry.

    In Christ,
    CD

  11. CD:

    Kevin said:
    As I have clearly said in my article I do not consider Ray or anyone at WOTM false teachers, just that they are wrong on this issue.

    You said:
    You [Kevin] seem to be a terribly confused and bitter young man …

    I guess that speaks for itself. Kevin discusses issues and you discuss about people.

  12. What really speaks for itself Daniel is the way you pulled two disparate comments out of the context of the entire exchange between myself and Kevin – a conversation into which you insinuated yourself apparently for the sole purpose of taking a secondary offense – and how you then proceeded rest your case upon a pair of meaningless prooftexts.

    I certainly hope you don’t follow this pattern with your handling of the scriptures, Daniel.

    In Christ,
    CD

  13. CD

    QUOTE:

    ” And by the way Dale, I’m typically loathed to answer a question with a question; but as soon as you can tell me where the eternal gospel of grace shouldn’t be faithfully proclaimed then I’ll answer your inquiry. ”

    My first thoughts when you responded to this was “Nicely dodged” …However im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and even though i asked you a question first that has yet to be answered..I will answer yours.

    The gospel should be proclaimed everywhere …However this is the whole crux of the matter is it right to go against Gods Word and align ourselves with heretics/false teacher/prophets in order to reach more people?

    Again think about this …Should WOTM go touring with Todd Bentley and fail to warn the many millions that are watching him of the false teaching for the sake of reaching more people.

    Again i look forward to your answer to my question.

    with respect
    dale

  14. The question is this, is the gospel compromised by not explicitly declaring the Word of Faith doctrines to be heretical?

    Yes.

    Ray Comfort does two things at Atheist debates, first declares that the Atheistic Worldview is wrong, second, preaches the gospel.

    Okay.

    It would be insane to go to an Mormon debate and JUST preach the gospel, why, because you are giving credence to them, if you do not explicitly say that their god is a false god.

    That is essentially what is happening here, to ignore it is to ignore reality.

    Sidenote:

    I’m sure there are mormons out there USING WOTM (and agreeing with WOTM), there are Homosexual “Christians” (gaychristian101.com) and Todd Bentley’s people using wotm. This is one of the reasons that they needed to address the world religions in season 3. I sincerely hope that Ray does not compromise as he preaches his message at that conference.

    If you’re reading this Ray, You can do it Ray, preach the full truth.

  15. Our merciful and gracious God saved me out of Mormonism by the pure, unadulterated, and uncompromising message of the gospel. Dennis and Rauni Higley of H.I.S. Ministries International had the wisdom and courage to clearly make the distinction betwen God of the bible and the false god of Mormonism. They were kind and loving, but made no apologies that biblical Christianity is completely different from Mormonism. One scripture I will always remember Rauni telling me many times is from Hebrews 10:31, “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.” With her uncompromising emails and conversations where she expounded the truth of Who God is and Who He is NOT, I can say with all seriousness that I literally got the hell scared out of me! Soon after being born-again I heard Ray’s message, “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” and must say it helped me understand more fully my own sinful nature and the reason Jesus went to the cross as a propiation for my sins.

    I understand that the debate on this blog is in regard to whether or not Ray should appear in a conference with a whole line-up of false teachers. The only thing I want to add to all the comments is that the gospel must faithfully and TRUTHFULLY be proclaimed. If Ray does go through with this, or anyone else in the future who has the opportunity to witness–especially to those in pseudo-Christian cults–it is imperative that clear distinctions be made and that terms be defined. If I was still Mormon when Ravi spoke at the tabernacle in Salt Lake City, I would have walked away with my testimony in Mormonism strengthened. I would have seen no difference between the real Jesus and the false Jesus of Mormonism. I just cannot stress enough the importance of defining terms and telling it like it really is. The new white-washed, inoffensive evangelism of today has done more to keep people in darkness than the devil could have done himself.

    On the one hand I understand completely those who say Ray should not speak at the venue in question because it appears to give credence to what the false teachers are saying. On the other hand, I see where Ray is coming from; we should go to where the lost are to preach the gospel. There are many lost or being led astray, who attend these WoF conferences and this may be a rare opportunity for them to hear the true gospel preached if Ray does not compromise on the truth. My biggest concern is that enemies of the gospel may use Ray’s participation in this event to further their own agenda, the same way the LDS Church used Ravi Zacharias to give credibility to Mormonism. He played right into their hands and Mormon leaders have been shameless ever since in using that event to promote their own agenda of deceit. I can easily picture the WoF teachers using sound bites of Ray and using his name in their own articles or websites to make it look like the evangelical community at large is in agreement with them. I would rather that WOTM staff hand out CDs of Hell’s Best Kept Secret outside this event to people as they leave than for Ray to speak there inside. Just my two-cents. By the way, you can read my testimony of leaving Mormonism on my Equipping Christians website. Thanks for listening.

  16. I personally went to the Saturday & Sunday services at a very large “Word of Faith” church within the Nashville area to hear Ray Comfort who was the quest speaker. I clearly see that what this church teaches is contrary to scripture. However, Ray Comfort didn’t change his essential messages one iota to please this congregation or it’s leadership. He didn’t beat them about the head & face with his KJV Bible either. He lovingly, truthfully, powerfully, taught the scripture and the polar opposite of prosperity doctrines. It was tense yet very moving. Ray Comfort proved to me 110% that the integrity Christ put in his heart is incredibly strong and far more importantly Ray would rather die than ever compromise the Gospel.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s